Sir Keir Starmer on knife crime, immigration and remodelling the NHS
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer joins us live in the studio to talk about why he believes he can win the general election later this year, his vision for Britain’s future and his mission to address knife crime, antisocial behaviour and children’s health.
First speaking of Valdo Calocane, who was sentenced for the three stabbings in Nottingham, and the outrage from the victims' families, Sir Keir said, “We have to think of the families here. I heard Grace’s father speaking and it’s just raw pain for these families and it's unspeakable and we sometimes say ‘that we can imagine what they’re going through’ but we can’t imagine, it’s absolutely awful.
“As far as the sentence was concerned, obviously there were mental health issues in this particular case, and there is power to review it and that probably makes sense and have it double checked by the court of appeal. But I think alongside the sentence, I am very worried about what appears to be a number of points at which action could have been taken, that would’ve prevented this happening and the family are saying there needs to be an inquiry into that - and I think they are right about that. Somebody independently needs to look at exactly what happened - what were the points there could’ve been an intervention and why didn’t it happen? That is the least that these families are owed.”
He continued, “Of all the things I’ve ever done, talking to a parent who has lost their child to a knife attack is the most difficult. You almost can’t say anything…”
When asked if he thought the punishment was too lenient, Keir said, “It’s always difficult when there are mental health issues in a case. Families will say - understandably - surely this is a murder case with a life sentence [but] when it is mental health it is more complicated… but I do think the family is entitled to a review. What I am worried about is, if I can sit here and say this scenario where there were points beforehand where something could’ve been done is unusual, that would be one thing, but I'm afraid I’ve seen too many times that things could have been done along the way.”
He added, “We have to make this a number one priority. Which means the Prime Minister is saying ‘I’m going to have my sight on this’ - the three areas I would look at first is the availability of knives available online. These ‘zombie style’ knives are still available online, that should be banned and the Government has said since 2015 that ‘we're going to ban them’ - get on with it! I think we should [also] ban samurai swords, frankly.”
“The second thing I’d do is identify those young people who are most at risk of using a knife and take them out of the system and give them the support that they need. So mentoring, the support… if you look across any of these cases you can quite often identify those that are most likely to be involved in the using of knives - get them out, get the support and stop that from happening in the first place.”
When asked about the sentence of someone carrying a knife, Keir said, “I think if you carry a knife then you should carry the consequences of that. What worries me is there is a ‘toolkit’ available and I was quite shocked to see the statistic that the significant number of people caught with knives are simply doing letters of apology, when you could have tagging, you could have curfews, you could have behaviour contracts, much more muscular things before you even get to the question of what’s going to happen in court. So I just don’t think this is being taken seriously enough. It requires leadership. If we have a Labour government I want it to be mission driven and I would make knife crime one of my missions to drive this down…”
When Alison asked what can be done, and spoke of Idris Elba’s campaign. Keir said, “I met with Idris the day before last and a very powerful campaign but they are frustrated… and Ben Kinsella was killed 15 years ago, and Ben’s father listening to Grace’s father in Nottingham said ‘that is what I was saying almost 15 years ago, and nothing has happened’... It can't go on like this.”
Admitting how he worries about his own teenage children, Keir said, “I worry, of course I do, particularly with teenage children worries about how safe they are on the streets… This needs politicians that make it their mission to do something about it. That’s the single mindedness that I would want to bring to this.”
He added, “Knife crime has gone up 77% since 2015 and people want to see police on the streets. You have to make it a priority. If we came into power we’d have 13,000 ‘neighbourhood police’ that would be in the areas and areas of communities - they are the eyes and ears.”
On child obesity, Keir simply said, “The health service is on its knees - we've got to pick it back up and that’s what the Labour government will do, but we’ve also got to change it, we’ve got to have a model where we prevent things from happening. If you take obesity and dentistry - I found what was shocking was that more children are getting their teeth taken out because they are decaying between the ages of 6-11… we can’t have this. We haven’t got a model for prevention.”
He went on, “Either people can’t get a GP appointment and they turn up at A&E… We need something more community based - a mental health hub in the community for example - we need mental health professionals in hub, a walk in, not via a GP, that is much better for the individual and desperately needed and means these individuals are not turning up at A&E which is a massively overstretched. The pressure on the health service is unbearable under this government. They need to get into a room with the junior doctors and sort this out - both of them are hinting that there is a deal to be done. They’ve been underpaid and undervalued for years, we have to recognise that and a government therefore needs to get in room and negotiate a deal with them. This dancing around... Get in a room!”
On immigration and his plans to tackle this, he said, “Smash the gangs that are running this vile trade. Nobody should be crossing the channel in these boats. Gangs are running this, they are taking a huge amount of money from very vulnerable people. These bigger boats are bigger and being made to order… If sharing intelligence can be done for terrorism, gun running, drug running, I do not and will never accept the argument that it can’t be done to take down these gangs that are running this vile trade. This can be done and if I was Prime Minister that’s where I would be putting my energy.”
On a forthcoming election, Keir said, “This is the year we’ve been waiting for, working for, and we take one step at a time… almost nothing daunts me about the job I’ve got to do, the thing that worries me is my kids. My boy is 15 doing his GCSEs, my girl is 13 going on 16 so they are at an age where I do impact them almost more than any other age, so I am worried about that. Our daughter months ago said, ‘Daddy, if you do win the election, would you move into number ten?’ I said, ‘Mum and I will take each step as we…’
“And then matter-of-fact she said, ‘Just to let you know, I’m not coming.’ He laughed, “She has her mates in Kentish Town and she’s not moving! So I’m not quite sure what we’re going to do about that but we’ll have to see…”
Before adding, “I hope [should we get into power] we get to have a reset moment and to restore that politics is about service. We need hope, we need change and I’ve always had this drive to improve the lives of other people.”