Labour wants to create over 100,000 new nursery places - but just how feasible is it?

ITV News Deputy Political Editor Anushka Asthana asks Bridget Phillipson about Labour's plans to create more nursery places and place VAT on primary schools

Labour's policy today to create more than 100,000 new nursery places for children from nine months old in England is certainly eye-catching, and speaking to experts, seen largely as a positive thing.

The plans would see schools repurposing classrooms that turn up empty as a result of a declining birth rate, which means pupil roll numbers are expecting to fall significantly this decade.

In reality, it is more complicated than it sounds for schools to identify how they will merge classes and free up space - but in theory, headteachers are not against the idea.

In a conversation with me this morning, Paul Whiteman, General Secretary of the National Association of Headteachers said: "There is certainly a clear logic in using free space in primary schools to expand nursery provision.

"It is positive to see that Labour have made clear that schools that wish to do this will be able to access the necessary funding."

But there are still big questions about staffing, he warned: "Having the right space is one part of the picture, and it will be equally important that there is a strong focus on attracting more people into the early years workforce."

The nursery sector has faced a workforce crisis - so will Labour be putting money into that?

On Monday, Bridget Phillipson, the Shadow Education Secretary, made clear to me they were addressing it by embracing the government's own plan to massively expand free childcare places.

And, to be honest, that is the much bigger part of Labour's childcare offer to the country.

The plan to repurpose empty classrooms in England costs £135 million, while the overall cost of continuing with the free provision offer placed on the table by the Tories is £4 billion.

In 15 years of reporting on this subject, I've heard time and again that free provision has never been fully resourced. Will things be different this time?

Christine Farquharson, at the Institute for Fiscal Studies, told me that the government was offering far more in funding terms than in the past.

For example, for a nine-month-old child, the private market rate for parents is just over £6 an hour, while the government will fund over £11.

For two-year-olds the state will pay £8.35, while for three and four-year-olds the funding rate is closer to the market price.

The idea is for the government injection to encourage a market-led response, in which wages of nursery workers can rise to attract more into the market.

It won't be clear what providers do with the extra income until it is properly up and running.

It could be funnelled into higher salaries for staff, new and better facilities to attract parents, or some might simply pocket the difference.

Christine Farquharson argued that Labour was "sweetening the pot" with today's promise to pay the capital costs in schools to help unlock new nurseries, but it was "small potatoes" compared to the big expansion already happening.

The arguments for piling state money into childcare is not only to make parents' lives easier, but also to help people back into work to try to tackle an inactivity crisis that has grown in recent years.

Labour say they will pay for the nursery policy (and 6,500 new teachers) by placing VAT on private schools.

Some have claimed that this policy will drive thousands out of private education into state education (although it is worth saying the IFS thinks the numbers moving will be low).

Yesterday, Starmer's shadow attorney general, Emily Thornberry, suggested that if that meant bigger class sizes in the state sector, so be it.

Today Keir Starmer said she had got that wrong, quoting the IFS' suggestion that the policy will have 'negligible impact' on where parents send their children.

Asked if Starmer hoped that ultimately parents would choose not to send their children private, he told me: "No. Many parents will want to send their children to private schools and I've nothing against that whatsoever, but we have to fix the problems we have in state schools."

When I asked Phillipson if she believed in private education, she replied: "I think it's the right of parents to decide how they educate their children. That can be at a private school, personally that is not a choice I would make."

Have you heard our podcast Talking Politics? Every week Tom, Robert and Anushka dig into the biggest issues dominating the political agenda…