Fujitsu employees 'dragged over coals' if they admitted issues with Post Office software

Speaking exclusively to ITV News, a Fujitsu whistleblower revealed how staff dreaded taking calls on Wednesdays - the day post offices were required to balance their accounts. UK Editor Paul Brand reports

A former employee at a Fujitsu call centre who dealt with queries from sub-postmasters about the Horizon system told ITV News that staff would have been "dragged over the coals" if they admitted the software had problems.

Nate Orrow worked at Fujitsu's Stevenage call centre for two years, between 2010 and 2012.

Speaking exclusively to ITV News, he said that when sub-postmasters were required to balance their accounts, the call centre would be "back to back for hours" with queries.

"There was no respite from the queueing calls", he said.

"The bulk of it was account discrepancies," Mr Orrow added.

"More often than not it was a mystery. The most you could do was try to empathise with them, comfort them and say you'd escalate it up.

"It was difficult talking to people, some of the people were pretty desperate."

'We hated supporting it, it was a bad piece of software. If anyone did say anything and their call was listened to they would be dragged over the coals'

Mr Orrow said call centre staff regularly discussed the fact that Horizon "was obviously a dreadful piece of software" - though they weren't certain of its specific faults.

"We were under no illusion that the system wasn't good. We hated supporting it. It was a bad piece of software", he said.

But Mr Orrow alleged that staff would be punished for letting on to sub-postmasters that there were problems with the system.

"If anybody ever made any kind of suggestion that that was the case they'd be dragged over the coals if the call was listened to or a supervisor overheard them."

Mr Orrow is the first Horizon call handler to be interviewed by the media since the recent ITV drama depicted sub-postmasters phoning up for help.

"Naturally you feel a little bit of second-hand guilt, because maybe I could have done something different", he told us.

"Hindsight is great, but I have no doubts looking back at it now that it was obviously a dreadful piece of software that was causing these problems."

"I genuinely wish I hadn't worked there. I wish I'd been put on a different account at the very least."

'Everyone was crying out for help. They made us look like idiots': Former sub-postmaster Harjinder Butoy told ITV News UK Editor Paul Brand after the Post Office accused him of stealing £200,000 and being sentenced to three years in prison

Former sub-postmaster Harjinder Butoy was one of those who said he repeatedly called the Horizon helpdesk.

Eventually, the Post Office accused him of stealing £200,000 and he was sentenced to three years in prison.

Reacting to Mr Orrow's interview, he expressed anger at Fujitsu and Post Office management. 

Mr Butoy said: "It is absolutely wrong, this is absolutely shocking. People said we never asked for help, everyone was crying out for help from the help desk.

"Maybe they (Fujitsu) knew it. They have made us look like thick idiots."

In response to the latest claims, a Fujitsu spokesperson told ITV News: "The Fujitsu Group regards this matter with the utmost seriousness and offers its deepest apologies to the sub-postmasters and their families.

"The UK statutory public Inquiry, to which our UK subsidiary is providing full cooperation, is examining complex events that have unfolded over many years, and we remain steadfast in our commitment to this cooperation.

"Based on the findings of the Inquiry, we will also be working with the UK government on the appropriate actions, including contribution to compensation.

"The Fujitsu Group hopes for a swift resolution that ensures a just outcome for the victims."

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