Vaughan Gething hopes for 'change in approach' in how Rishi Sunak communicates with Welsh Government

The relationship between Prime Ministers and First Ministers has historically set the tone for the way the different governments operate with each other. Credit: PA

Vaughan Gething has said he "would like to see a change in approach" in the way the Prime Minister deals with the Welsh Government.

Speaking on The News Agents podcast, Mr Gething reflected on the sometimes strained relationship between the First Minister of Wales and the Prime Minister.

When asked if Mr Gething had had "many dealings" with the Prime Minister so far, he said he'd had a "perfectly polite" phone call with him after he was elected as First Minister in March – but has not spoken to him since.

He added that he is "not going to bet" on the relationship with Number 10 improving anytime soon.

The Welsh Labour Leader said: "The challenge then there was getting the detail of what's going to change and be different.

"Are we going to have a different relationship? Or are they still going to have the aggressive approach cutting across what we're doing?"

It comes as Mr Gething has been making a number of media appearances in his first month of the job.

He also appeared on ITV's Good Morning Britain programme this week, speaking about his 'optimism' for a Labour UK Government.

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Welsh and UK Governments work together all the time, regardless of who’s at the top. Officials and even ministers from the devolved nations are in constant contact with their counterparts in Westminster on a whole range of issues.

But the relationship between Prime Ministers and First Ministers is important because it sets the tone and the political context for the way the different governments operate with each other.

Carwyn Jones and David Cameron had a reasonably positive way of working together and, although she was a cooler personality, both Carwyn Jones and Mark Drakeford found Theresa May to be respectful and in regular contact.

Things changed under Boris Johnson. Mr Drakeford told the Covid Inquiry that he was like the “absent manager” of a football team while the former Prime Minister himself told the Inquiry that he didn’t want to meet the leaders of Wales and Scotland too often because it could give "the false impression that the UK was a federal state".

There were tensions between Boris Johnson’s government and the devolved governments in Wales and Scotland Credit: PA

Mr Drakeford had complained about a lack of contact during that time but when I put those complaints to Mr Johnson in an interview in 2021, he said that “He keeps saying … that I never I never call him, well he never calls me - I mean come on - it takes two to tango."I love the guy but he's not on the phone to me all the time [and] I keep reading in the papers: ‘Mark Drakeford denounces Boris Johnson for failing to ring him up’ - well come on, you know he can always - If he really wants to have a conversation then he can ring me up."

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The next Prime Minister didn’t even do that. Having called Mark Drakeford a “desiccated Corbynista” during her leadership campaign, Liz Truss didn’t manage to pick up the phone to him during her short time in Number 10.

When Rishi Sunak took over, the Welsh Government made it known that the relationship had reverted to normal: polite and professional, if infrequent contact. It doesn’t necessarily make it easier if the leaders are from the same party either. The late Rhodri Morgan famously had a fractious relationship with Tony Blair which was partly to do with politics and partly personality.

It’s what led to the policy of ‘clear red water’ - coined by Mr Morgan’s adviser, Mark Drakeford - to enable Welsh Labour to emphasise areas of difference with UK Labour. Some opponents have suggested that Vaughan Gething would be beholden to Keir Starmer if the UK Labour leader becomes Prime Minister.

Sir Keir Starmer and the First Minister Vaughan Gething met soon after Mr Gething took office. Credit: PA Images

On that score, he told the News Agents podcast that although, yes, he does want “a different settlement in terms of some of the powers we have,” what’s more important is “respect. I want acknowledgement of the responsibilities we all have.”

He insisted that Keir Starmer has told him that he wants to be “a Prime Minister who regularly meets First Ministers from devolved governments.”

But Sir Keir is not Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak is. And one polite phone call doesn’t tell us much about what their relationship will be like.

The fact that there will be a UK General Election with Labour’s record in Wales absolutely on the agenda, gives us a much clearer idea of how they’ll be with each other: polite, maybe, but hostile.

In an ITV Wales interview, Mr Gething had said it "won't take very long for people to know exactly who he is". Credit: PA Images

Speaking on The News Agents podcast, Vaughan Gething also accused Rishi Sunak of being "out of touch" and someone who "does not understand what normal life is like."

The comments came after Mr Gething was asked about Rishi Sunak's recent gaffe on a live radio phone-in when he mixed up a caller’s name with the south Wales valley where she lived.

The prime minister had to be corrected by host LBC Nick Ferrari after referring to caller Louise, from the Rhondda Valley, as “Rhonda”.

"Good morning Nick, good morning Prime Minister," Louise had said, after being introduced. "Hi, Rhonda," Mr Sunak had replied.

Mr Gething also discussed the sense of responsibility of becoming the first Black political leader of a country in Europe and his vision for Wales in the future.

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