'Welsh Government care leavers scheme is like giving money to illegal migrants' says Rishi Sunak
The Prime Minister and Welsh Conservative leader are both standing by their claims that a Welsh Government scheme for care leavers amounts to giving money to “illegal migrants.”
At their party’s conference in Newport, both men repeated the claims in their speeches.
Rishi Sunak said that Welsh Labour was “paying asylum seekers £1,600” while Andrew RT Davies said that “Labour are undermining [action on illegal immigration] by wanting to pay illegal immigrants £1,600 a month.”
They were the latest in a series of attacks by senior Conservatives on a pilot scheme being run by the Welsh Government which offers a basic income of £1,600 a month to 18-year-olds leaving care.
Welsh ministers requested rule changes to the legal aid system to ensure that child asylum seekers who have been looked after by care services are able to remain part of the pilot scheme as they were previously.
That request was refused by the UK Government although legal aid is available to any asylum seeker not on the basic income pilot scheme.
In an interview for ITV Wales’ Sharp End programme, I asked the Prime Minister why he was claiming that Labour was paying illegal migrants when only legal asylum seekers would be involved in the scheme.
Rishi Sunak told me: "It's really important to me that we do take decisive action to stop the flow of illegal migrants. That's why we're passing new legislation through parliament."
He added: "I think it's a fundamental principle of legal aid that that aid is provided to those who actually need it and those who can afford should contribute themselves. That's not fair … and this this payment, because it was universal, undermines that fundamental principle. That support should only go to those who most need it. And that's why we've said that it's not the right way forward.”
I put it him that “that's why I'm saying that what you said, paying illegal migrants £1600 a month, that's not true. And that undermines your pledge to restore integrity.”
In response, he said: "No, no, no. I mean it is very clear what's going on here. But when it comes to this fundamental principle of legal aid, it's right that that's targeted on the people who actually need it, not on those who can afford to pay. Providing those people with support isn't the right use of taxpayer money. And it's not it's not fair."
When I repeated to him that any asylum seekers on the basic income pilot would not be “illegal” he simply said, “But when it comes to illegal migration I think it's absolutely the right thing to do to take tough and decisive action to stop the flow of illegal migrants coming to the country.”
I also asked the Welsh Conservative leader why he continues to claim that Labour is trying to pay illegal migrants.
Andrew RT Davies said: "Because they requested to have that money, to have the availability to spend that money from the UK Government."
I pointed out that that was untrue, that Welsh minsters had asked to allow care leavers on the basic income pilot, including some asylum seekers, to access legal aid, a request that has been refused.
Mr Davies said that “they wanted people who hadn’t had settled status agreed to be able to access the £1600 that is available under the initiative the Welsh Government have put in place. Now that's their prerogative to do … I'm not disputing it [but] people need understand that that's what the priorities of the Welsh Labour government are.”
In response I said to him: "But not what you're saying. You're saying that like Welsh Labour is paying illegal migrants. They're not, they're legal asylum seekers, a few of whom are on a scheme. They are not asking for more money for that scheme, they're asking for them to be able to access legal aid."
The Welsh Tory leader said: "Well, we know that if you put pull factors in such as a £1600 monthly payment, you will attract more people to come to Wales.
"That is something that France and Germany have taken away and they've realised that that stopped the pull factor and reduced the number of people seeking asylum."
Andrew RT Davies said he would continue to make the claim and “continue to highlight where I believe the Welsh Government are failing.”
I also wanted to get Rishi Sunak’s view on the sometimes vexed question of what the role is within his party of the post that Andrew RT Davies currently occupies.
Officially he’s just the Leader of the Welsh Conservatives in the Senedd but at different times over the last ten years or so that role has expanded and contracted. It is, after all, the only leadership post that Welsh Conservative members directly elect.
David Cameron made it clear in an interview with me that he saw Andrew RT Davies as being the overall leader in Wales while under Theresa May and Boris Johnson, however, the title reverted to being “leader of the Senedd group.”
When Liz Truss told me last year that Mr Davies “is the leader of the Welsh Conservatives,” I double checked by asking her: "That is an official role as leader of all the Welsh conservatives?” To which she said simply and clearly: “Yes.”
Her time in charge didn’t last long and now Rishi Sunak has made it clear that he is in the May and Johnson camp.
The Prime Minister told me that “Andrew RT Davies is the leader of the Welsh Conservatives in the Senedd and I work very closely with him.
“We also have a fantastic Welsh secretary David TC Davies and I work very closely with with both of them, but particularly RT.
“But what I would say is I'm prime minister for the United Kingdom and for everyone watching, I just want them to know that I take that responsibility really seriously.”
At the Welsh Conservative conference in Newport, the current incumbent seems genuinely not to be worried by that unlike he has been in some previous years.
Andrew RT Davies told me: “I think in the fullness of time that will happen and I think it is something that will happen in the party.
“But instead of focusing on internal discussions and internal organisational matters, what I want to focus on is what we can achieve for people the length and breadth of Wales.”