UTV Podcast: World cup winning springbok captain Francois Pienaar on Mandela, leadership and winning

By Dan Duffy and James McNaney

"It's incredible, I can't believe it's 30 years"

That's how one of the most famous and successful South African rugby players of all time, Francois Pienaar, reflects on the 1995 World Cup victory in Johannesberg.

South Africa's journey to democracy in the 80s and 90s was marked by many remarkable moments, and the former was at the centre of one of them.

He led the Springboks to their first world cup title in 1995, claiming the trophy at their home tournament.

This wasn't just a maiden world cup title, it represented the Springboks' full return to the international rugby fold after the years of being boycotted due to the racist system of Apartheid.

Pienaar received the world cup from then President of South Africa, Nelson Mandela who was wearing a springbok jersey, with his number, and cap.

He said: "it was incredibly emotional.

"I mean, it could have backfired! It was so emotive, our President wearing a Springbok."

That image would have been unimaginable just 10 years earlier. Nelson Mandela was imprisoned on Robben island, the head of the dissident African National Congress and their armed wing, uMkhonto we Sizwe.

The Springboks, meanwhile, were the symbol of the racist society that Mandela opposed. A team which only allowed white players, and who were largely only supported by white South Africans.

But after the transition to majority rule in the early 90s, Mandela sought to embrace the Springboks as part of his attempts to reach out to white south africans and ease communal tensions.

Mandela's decision to hand the trophy to Pienaar was one part of this attempt at reconciliation in a country that had been deeply divided.

Francois Pienaar sat down with UTV's Dan Duffy, and he spoke about his experiences leading the boks to that most famous of victories, and about the Springbok team of today.

'For the first time there was real hope': Memories of '95

Pienaar said 1995 "feels like yesterday" and he can recall details of it as this sporting triumph occurred just this week.

"To see how that victory changed people in South Africa, we never had a clue how big an impact it would have on everyone.

"For the first time there was real hope. Everybody was a world cup winner.

"Even almost 30 years later I'm reminded of that day and how people felt.

'One of the greatest leaders the world has ever seen': Nelson Mandela

Pienaar is glowing in his reminiscences of the first President of a democratic South Africa, and he still has trouble believing in the sheer unlikeness of Mandela's actions.

"It's crazy. When you consider South Africa's history, Apartheid, and where the Springbok emblem was seen as a symbol of Apartheid - hated by the majority of South Africans for good reason.

"And the president that was in jail for 27 years comes to the final wearing the Springbok.

"Beforehand he wore the cap at rallies and he got booed, but he kept on explaining to everybody that this is our team."

Mandela didn't just support from afar, he addressed the Bok players as they were preparing for the world cup.

"And when he walked into the changing room, it was incredibly emotional.

"I mean, it could have backfired! It was so emotive, our President wearing a Springbok.

"And he wished us good luck, and when he turned around [he was wearing] my number at the back.

"I had to go to the little room to collect myself. It was incredibly emotional."

As proud as Pienaar is of his achievements in 1995, he is equally supportive of this current team.

They contain some of the world's best players, Damien Willemse, Cheslin Kolbe, Kurt-Lee Arendse, Eben Etzebeth and of course inspirational captain Siya Kolisi.

Kolisi is the first black player to captain the Springboks. His team's win in 2019 was another step on a journey started by Mandela decades ago.

Pienaar's pride in being a South African is evident in all his answers.

When asked who he thought will win the tournamanet, Pienaar took a moment.

"I've got to say South Africa. I want to say South Africa.

"I'm going to say South Africa."

Watch South Africa play New Zealand in the rugby world cup final live on UTV on Saturday, with coverage starting from 7pm.

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