Sir Declan Morgan prepared to take legal action if state blocks info truth recovery body needs

Sir Declan Morgan has said he is prepared to take legal action against the government if there are any blockages to him getting truth for victims - if and when the Troubles Legacy Bill becomes law.

The former Lord Chief Justice was appointed as the incoming head of the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery (ICRIR).

He told UTV that he accepted the role because it is "an opportunity and maybe even the last opportunity" to deal with the legacy of the past in a way that has positive outcomes for victims, survivors and families.

The new body will be formed if the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill receives Royal Assent.

If the highly controversial legislation is enacted after the summer recess, it will put an end to court cases and inquests relating to the troubles after May 2024.

This has caused the legislation to be branded an "amnesty" bill by those who oppose it as it would mean those accused of killing and maiming during the Troubles would not appear before the courts.

Sir Declan was speaking to UTV as part of a special Up Close programme.

In 'Protected Species', we look at a mass civil action against a former British agent who was embedded within the IRA.

Peter Keeley penned a book about his work as a soldier who infiltrated and worked his way up within the IRA in South Down.

Victims and families of the IRA unit in which Keeley worked have spoken of their horror at learning there may have been collusion in their cases.

They have the chance to have an outcome in court, but others who have not triggered proceedings before any such law comes into force will not have the same luck.

As part of a wide ranging interview, Sir Declan discusses how he was identified to to the post, what the role involves, as well as the challenges around the bill.

The ICRIR is a key component of the Bill which the government says "represents the Government’s pledge to address the extremely complex and sensitive legacy of Northern Ireland’s past."

The body's Chief Commissioner designate suggested legal action may be necessary if the state prevents him accessing information he deems necessary to do his job properly.

"If it was the case that any government agency was failing to comply with our requirement for information then we would take the necessary steps by order of litigation, if appropriate, in order to recover the information," he said.

He emphasised his role is as head of an independent organisation, saying the government is not in a position to say he cannot have access to certain information relating to the Troubles.

Explaining his reasoning for possible legal action, he noted that the courts should be involved in working out whether the measures contained within the bill are compliant with the obligations that UK has accepted under the European Convention of Human Rights.

"If whenever the Bill comes through and becomes enact, those aspects of the Bill that people are concerned about should be tested by the courts to find out whether they are convention compliant," he said.

"We have struggled with dealing with the past and dealing with the legacy of the past in this community. It was the thing that was too difficult to do in 1998. I felt this was an opportunity to do what the bill requires to do."

He spoke about the strong voice of objection from victims, saying he experienced that himself when he set up the legacy inquest unit, adding the people they are talking about are people who have been disappointed repeatedly in the past 25 years.

"My commitment is to ensure we put together a mechanism and use what is in the Bill to achieve the type of information recovery for people who particularly have been left behind."

Engagement with political parties, the families, the Council of Europe and the UN has been taking place, according to Sir Declan.

"When it comes to the nature of the review that will be carried out, that has to be victim led. It means what victims and survivors will have the opportunity for a full police investigation into what happened to their loved ones," he said.

"There are some victims that would be retraumatised if they were to go through a full revived inquiry at this stage.

"There are issues that arise when you have access to the information [which MI5 and other intelligence services] will disclose, such as the identity of informers that are still living within the community - people who have provided information to the police in relation to terrorist activity - those people's lives may be in danger.

"Everything that is relevant or potentially relevant we are entitled to see, and then there will be an issue whether it can be disclosed. If we have to litigate to get that then we will."

As part of the programme, we also spoke to commentators Alex Kane and Andree Murphy about the bill - and the opposition to it.

"It never goes away," said Mr Kane, who has been writing about healing wounds from the past for decades.

"I think that's why they needed to deal with this much more carefully.

"They haven't resolved the legacy. They won't resolve it. But what they will leave in place is the roots of a problem which broke out in 1968 and could well break out again further down the line if we don't get ourselves together at some point."

If the law does change, a future Labour government could reverse it again.

"Undoing something that is bad is not a bad thing to do," said Andree Murphy.

"It will undoubtedly be challenging for people, more than likely, the people who are employed in the processes rather than the victims and survivors who are waiting it out for a decent process - a human rights compliant process.

"The obligation will be on the incoming Labour government if that's what happens to decide to actually meet the human rights of victims and survivors, to meet the rights enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement.

"It's up to them whether they're going to do that.

"Victims and survivors at this stage will be very cynical as to whether any British government will be able to deliver that."

Ms Murphy said that if the bill does become law, families effected will be in court "the next day".

The debate about how we handle the bloodstained past of Northern Ireland is far from over.

Up Close: Protected Species, airs on Thursday, August 3 on UTV at 10.45pm. You can catch up with the programme after here.

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