Talking to Northern Ireland teenagers about Andrew Tate and 'toxic masculinity'

There are calls for compulsory education on healthy relationships and misogyny to be taught in Northern Ireland schools.

More than ever students are scrolling, learning and consuming content online on a daily basis.

Access to unlimited information online has led to some concerns from teachers, parents and youth workers that more needs to be done to educate young people on violence, relationships and misogyny.

One influencer's name kept coming up.

Social media personality Andrew Tate has amassed over six million Twitter followers and tens of thousands of subscribers on his private platform.

The World Kickboxing Champion and ex-Big Brother contestant rose to fame with his content, some of which was controversial and led to him being banned from Instagram, Facebook and Youtube.

He has been under house arrest in Romania while being investigated for human trafficking which he denies.

He says he takes full responsibility for his actions but that people will "hear and interpret what they relate to most".

"Andrew advocates for a healthy lifestyle, strong body, strong mind, discipline, and traditional family values," a spokesperson for Mr Tate told UTV.

The Ulster Teacher's Union and the charity Nexus are among those calling for compulsory education on healthy relationships, amid worries some influencers may be having a negative impact on teenagers.

Nexus' chief executive Joanne Barnes wants to see mandated lessons on this topic.

"Because it is not mandated, there is no rhyme or reason as to the standard or its quality, or whether any time will be given [to it].

"It is about openness and that ability to have that conversation. This is why we also need to bring parents along on this educating journey. They need to take the learning from the classroom into the home.

"So it is about having a conversation, not being accusatory, asking why, what is fueling your interest in that individual. There are probably lots of positive things around his business mindset, his sporting prowess etc... But then does that cover up, and does that change, when you consider he has strong attitudes and beliefs about women."

Larne High School, music teacher Sarah Hughes, a UTU member, has been leading the charge to put on programmes in the absence of mandatory classes.

"There is so much out there that young people are absorbing, mixed messages and quiet a lot of negative messages in terms of what it is to be a man and how women are treated.

"Obviously we are aware of the high statistics in Northern Ireland of domestic abuse and we were keen to tackle all of those.

"We brought in White Ribbon - a domestic violence charity - that are looking at working with young men on how to treat women in an aim to end violence against women.

"We also brought in workshops on health relationships, consent, the dangers of porn and how that is geared toward boys and not typical of real relationships."

"Talking to the boys about what consent is and how a relationship should be and talking to the girls about empowering them that they can say 'no' and they have a voice and an opinion when it comes to a relationship ... and speaking up if they are not comfortable with something."

She said they found that the kids "really didn't have a lot of knowledge on consent".

"They hear consent, it's a buzzword at the minute but they don't think they really grasp what it means," she said.

"So we're trying to cover all bases really from a young age up to senior school.

"Parents find it difficult to discuss.. I think it's a topic that society doesn't really know how to tackle and without it becoming mandated that all schools have to do it in detail, I think schools quite often will gloss over the awkward bits and pick certain buzzwords and the likes of consent of like going into any real detail.

"We certainly have found that by having these workshops in the open and the conversation, pupils are more willing to ask questions and discuss things that have happened or ask questions, 'you know, should this happen?' And I think if we hadn't done that, most conversations have happened.

"So I think it's important for schools to to be more open."

Lili Busby, a student at Ulster University has been conducting some research after feeling concerned about some things she was hearing around the campus.

She received over 300 responses when she issued a survey about the influence of Mr Tate.

She found people did condemn some of the posts while others found Andrew Tate had helped them with mental health issues and had helped some to "better themselves".

She said one respondent had said he had helped with finances and another said he had felt suicidal and Mr Tate "brought him back from that place".

"There is quite a contrast," she told UTV. "It is interesting that someone with serious allegations against him is changing a lot of men's lives."

For St Patrick's Youth Group in Keady, Co Armagh though, conversations about masculinity are happening, regardless of what's on any curriculum.

Youth Action worker Caolan Donnelly has led conversations with a group of young men through a game called 'Spoons' to talk about uncomfortable issues.

He said they work with young people on 'what it means to be men'.

"You are always going to look up to roles models... Andrew Tate does comes up a good bit," he said.

"Although some of the stuff that young men take away can be positive... there is certainly a lot of stuff I see as very negative.

"We are more about not running people down or seeing the negative. We are more about getting young men thinking about stuff in a different way. Is the stuff he is saying about women, positive?

"Is the stuff he is saying about relationships positive? So we want to get the young men thinking about the way they treat people and the way they build relationships.

"It is about bringing it up in a fun, interactive way and asking those serious questions and relating it back to people they are seeing in the media like Andrew Tate - but it could be others like footballers, musicians it is not always these UFC fighters."

We sent a series of questions to Andrew Tate. A spokesperson replied on his behalf.

What do you say to those who perceive you to be sexist/ misogynist, or who say it incites violence?

Andrew believes that responsibility is a bilateral attribute. He takes full responsibility for all the statements he makes, but realistically, people will hear and interpret what they relate to most. The mainstream media bears an equal responsibility for taking Andrew’s statements out of context and perpetuating a message that would generate controversy, therefore engagement, therefore revenue. No one engages with a post that talks about how many Syrian children the Tates feed weekly. 

Do you feel that any of your content could undo work towards gender equality?

Andrew advocates for a healthy lifestyle, strong body, strong mind, discipline, and traditional family values. He lives his life abiding by his 41 tenets, and he encourages his followers to do the same. His beliefs are not in any way related to gender equality and he does not feel responsible for others weaponising his message. 

Do you feel that your content could have any negative influence on the young or vulnerable.

Even the Bible, the Quran, the Torah can be interpreted in a negative way. Andrew believes that the immediate family is the most important pillar in supporting children and educating them to become well rounded individuals. Children can be exposed to different factors on the street, at school, on the internet, but the environment that shapes them the most is their home and family, and this is where the true responsibility lies. 

Do you believe that women should bear "some responsibility" for being assaulted as per a previous interview, or that there is no such thing as an independent woman?

Andrew has clarified these statements in a previous Piers Morgan interview. Andrew supports women and is an advocate for traditional masculine values and family roles, where the man is the one responsible to provide for the family, including the woman beside him. This does not deter a woman from being independent, it creates a safe and nurturing environment where a woman can pursue her own interests. 

Meanwhile, the Department for Education told UTV that "teaching about misogyny is not a specific topic in the curriculum.

A statement said that the curriculum does however focus on the "broad issue of relationships."

It continued: "Pupils have the opportunity to explore and understand how their and others' feelings and emotions and actions affect others.  

"In post-primary curriculum pupils are provided with opportunities to understand the importance of forming and maintaining relationships and the impact of them on their physical and emotional health."

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