How many mental health patients have actually died at Norfolk and Suffolk's troubled trust?

• ITV News Anglia's Rob Setchell interviews the chief executive of Norfolk and Suffolk's mental health trust.

How many people are dying before getting the mental health care they need?

It is an uncomfortable question that many NHS trusts across the country simply cannot answer. Mental health deaths are not collected on a national basis.

A public inquiry is currently investigating the deaths of around 2,000 mental health trust patients in Essex between 2000 and 2023.

Last year, an independent review found that Norfolk and Suffolk NHS Foundation Trust's (NSFT) data recording was so "chaotic" that it had lost track of patient deaths.

When Caroline Donovan became the trust's fifth chief executive in as many years in November, she launched a fresh report into the numbers.

In what is thought to be an NHS first, more than 250 NSFT staff have been involved in screening 12,503 patient deaths from October 2013 to April 2019.

They found that 6,385 of those deaths were patients who had been under the trust's care in the last six months of their lives - but 92% of those died from "natural causes".

That left 418 "unexpected unnatural deaths" - the majority being suicide or substance misuse - and 76 deaths where the cause was unknown.

“This report rights a wrong," said Mrs Donovan. "We can’t learn from these sad outcomes and experiences, and we can’t assess our performance and quality if we don’t know what’s happening to the people in our care.

"We now investigate and report on patient deaths, in public, to every board meeting.

"I do not underestimate how much pain and trauma bereaved families and relatives have been through and sincerely apologise that the trust may have added to this pain by not accurately recording the circumstances surrounding the loss of their loved ones.

“Every single person’s death has now been thoroughly examined by teams of clinical and non-clinical staff.

"We have identified recurring themes linked to unexpected, unnatural deaths. These themes will, and in many cases have already, led to trust wide improvements."

The trust says it is prioritising better record-keeping with a new digital system.

It wants to strengthen its workforce, with retention and recruitment of staff an ongoing challenge. Its vacancy rate is still 16% but that is the lowest it's been for five years.

It wants to improve communication and cut waiting times. Its new Rivers Centre at Hellesdon is due to open in November with 85 beds, although only 15 of those are new.

Consultant Neurologist Dr Katie Sidle is one of the bereaved relatives sharing her experience to try and help the trust.

Her brother Christopher died a year ago after throwing himself from a taxi just outside Norwich during a psychotic episode. Crisis teams had failed to admit him.

"There were 28 patients waiting for a hospital bed on the day my brother died," said Dr Sidle. "That is unacceptable.

"The number of beds they have per capita is below what is considered a safe limit and unless that is addressed patients will continue to come to harm."Many campaigners continue to call for a public inquiry into deaths at the trust, which has been rated inadequate four times by the Care Quality Commission and was the first in the country to be put in "special measures" in 2015.

Natalie McLellan says she remains sceptical about its ability to improve.

Her 24-year-old daughter Rebecca, a trainee paramedic with bi-polar disorder, had repeatedly begged the trust for help. She took her own life in November.

"Other families can't keep going through what we're going through," she said. "No-one should suffer how she suffered.

"She didn't need to end up this way. She just wanted help. She was a fully functioning paramedic. She had lots of friends.

"She had everything going for her and all she wanted was to have a meaningful life and unfortunately without those services she didn't achieve it.

"Something has got to change."

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